Pelayo Menendez-Fernandez holds the Hyrox doubles world record, having raced an incredible 48:31 alongside Rich Ryan in Miami.
You can listen to The Next Move podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
In this episode, we break down the training principles that fuel his performances — from his signature “Hyrox endurance” sessions (long, controlled station work that builds pacing and efficiency), to the small technique tweaks that save huge amounts of energy on race day. Pelayo also shares how he structures a basic Hyrox training week, why he avoids race simulations, and the mindset shift he believes separates good athletes from truly great racers.
You can listen to The Next Move podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Episode breakdown:
00:00 – Pelayo’s Hyrox/triathlon backgrond
00:26 – Pelayo explains his “Hyrox endurance” (long Zone 2–style) station session concept
02:23 – How long is the endurance session, and what intensity (HR/RPE, zones)?
04:10 – Common beginner mistake: going 10/10 intensity on every station
05:40 – What “efficiency” means in Hyrox: minimum energy, maximum speed
06:50 – Lunge efficiency tip: hitting the back knee hard (and why knee pads help)
07:12 – Burpee efficiency tip: minimize time on the ground + use bounce/momentum into the jump
09:52 – Why doubles can make certain techniques even more effective (shorter sets + rest)
11:12 – Coaching efficiency: technique drills and experimenting with positions (sled push/pull, etc.)
15:15 – Wall balls: Pelayo’s toughest station + the mental/physical battle of going unbroken
19:37 – Race-day “extra gear” vs training: why wall balls feel different in competition
22:25 – Running intensity philosophy: key threshold/VO2 sessions + easy days truly easy
25:16 – The “accidental” block that transferred to the Miami pro doubles world record (speed into threshold)
27:10 – Building a basic Hyrox training week: long endurance session + compromised run/bodyweight session
30:59 – Strength approach: supersets + mixing strength with erg/station work (and managing recovery)
47:00 – Elite race mindset: why Pelayo avoids race sims and saves the “gift” for race day
52:21 – What Pelayo’s most focused on now
Transcript:
John (00:00)
I’m here today with Pelayo Menendez Fernandez. Now, Pelayo is an amazing triathlete. He’s also a fantastic Hyrox athlete. He holds the men’s pro doubles world record alongside Rich Ryan. He also has a personal best men’s pro time of 55.23 and he’s finished as high as fourth in the high rocks world championships. Pelayo, welcome to the show.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (00:24)
Thank you, thank you John for having me.
John (00:26)
So one thing I’ve noticed about you, Pelay, you seem to be able to innovate in terms of the workouts that you do. So we had Dan Plews on recently he mentioned that you had this very long zone two workout based Hyrox session that you do. So maybe walk us through that session and how you ended up inventing a way of training like that.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (00:46)
⁓ Yeah, so it’s all by intuition.
So what you mentioned, I realized that most of the Hyrox workouts are done high intensity and then you go to a race and your workouts are not that high intensity. You have to slow down. You have to survive, to go through them. And this surviving mode and this different speed has nothing to do with doing a 10 minutes AMRAP at all out with the sleds or ski. It has to do more with endurance. So I decided that people should have the skill of pacing in the workout, same as they do in the runs, and providing this skill, being able to go slow in the workouts, cautiously, and being efficient in the movement.
is key. So one of the sessions I always implement every single week is a Hyrox endurance which replicates the typical bike endurance ride for triathletes on the weekend, but translated into hyrox movements. So I make you do a lot of hyrox movements, not a hyrox, like hyrox-related movements, and they don’t necessarily have to be the specific eight workouts. They could be a mix of different range of motions and things, but all at a very controlled effort. If you have different gears at the station, you have more resources. If you go into the bar piece and you feel too tired, but your bar piece speed is only one and you don’t match that speed
that day, you’re not going to do well. If you have a range of speeds, you know, okay, I can slow down and I know I’m going to take it easier and I’m going to rest because I need it, or I can go faster because I can control how fast I can go. So having this range of paces, I think is key for hyrrox.
John (02:23)
Interesting. Okay, so you’re teaching people to have a range of intensities that they can fall back on, not just on the running, but on the stations as well. So for a workout like this, so you’re calling it a high rocks endurance session. So how long are you looking? So what kind of timeframe is this? Is this 45 minutes? Is it an hour? And give us more details in terms of that intensity. this below threshold or how would you quantify it in terms of, you know, like the zones that many people might be familiar with?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (02:51)
Of course, at this point we have...
Well, they’re starting to develop some devices that can measure the load in the stations, but it’s still very hard. So it will be a heart rate-based and perceived exertion. The duration goes between one and half hours and two and a half hours sometimes. So it’s very long sessions with very long sets. It doesn’t have to be all together, but they could be like 30 to 40 to one hour a minute or even one hour and half minutes all together set, nonstop. The idea is to adjust weights. You don’t necessarily have to go
to use with your race weight the goal is to go at the end with your race weight and being able to manage that but when you start it obviously you will struggle to move the slack push at rp3 out of 10 so you have to slow to like put the weights down a little bit being able to control that weight efficiently at rp between three to five no more than five i would say obviously there’s spikes sometimes if you do wobbles you will you have a spike but you can also you can still control if you include smart brakes
within the station. And very important thing, these endurance sessions...
you have to add what I said, these breaks. And the breaks has to be controlled by you. You have to know which is your optimal resting time for each station so that you recover enough and you don’t lose time if you want to keep a perceived exertion throughout the whole station. So I always say, if you go to sled push, you have to control the pauses. The pauses cannot control you. Same with the rest of the stations.
John (04:10)
amazing.
Interesting. So when you’re coaching non-elite athletes, do find that they tend to rest and recover for too long and you’re encouraging them to really take shorter rest breaks or do feel like there’s a lack of rest? What do you typically see among people who are newer to high rocks?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (04:39)
The thing is that people try to go high intensity all the time, 10 out of 10. And if they see a sled and think, okay, I have to go to push that sled as fast as I can. Obviously there’s moments where we have to do it, but for those sessions, I mean, if you have one and half hours to hours workout.
and you start pushing, you will realize how it goes very soon. So you will learn. You don’t need me to be telling you, like, go slower. You will know. If you have to do, like, 500 meters of a sled push accumulated throughout the session, you won’t be pushing, like...
crazy the first few, without taking rest. You will adjust. with time, are getting used to those sessions and I think they enjoy it a lot because they feel they are more efficient. That’s a magic word for me. Going through the stations as efficient as possible, trying to find the movement patterns that saves you the most energy. And this is by trying different things and this Hierarchs & Deerans offers the opportunity to do that.
John (05:40)
Okay, okay. Let’s drill into that a little bit more. So how do you find efficiency when it comes to high rocks? What exactly does that mean?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (05:48)
Minimum energy, maximum speed. Like trying to move as fast as possible, the least energy as possible. So I’m very into trying also different techniques and different options. For example, I mean, one of the key aspects of lunging fast is how hard you hit the ground. So hitting the ground hard makes you bounce.
John (05:52)
Okay.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (06:15)
and you will save like a huge percentage of energy. So that’s the thing. So I tell them, okay, if this is a skill we need to develop.
We have to train with knee pads. On race day, we don’t care about hitting the ground without knee pads once. Very hard. But in training, if we don’t use them, we get used to touch the ground very slowly and then getting up very slowly. We wasting a lot of energy. We are not ready to do it hard the race day. So put knee pads, hit the ground, don’t hurt your legs, your knees, and get used to this feeling. So these sort of things, saving energy, wherever. This is an example of energy saving.
John (06:50)
Wow, okay, so you’ve discovered that if you hit your back leg, your back knee into the ground hard on the lunges, you’re able to move quicker and move in a more efficient manner. I think that’s pretty counterintuitive. I don’t think many people do that. So maybe that’s like a little secret that the elite athletes have figured out.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (07:06)
hopefully you can help someone but yeah there’s many other I won’t say
John (07:12)
OK, give us a couple more.
So what are some other surprise efficiency savings that you’ve discovered out there?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (07:17)
Okay, so.
Just one more,
just one more. And this is something that people can see in the videos if they see me doing barpees. But basically the barpee is about spending the least time, the least amount of time you spend on the ground, faster you’re gonna go. So same concept with lunges, you have to the ground hard. And to hit the ground hard, you have to train for that. So hitting the ground hard, bounce, and getting up without using your arms, without using anything, just the bounce of your chest. And this is also a key aspect.
So you, where you spend the most in bar pieces is in the jump. the jump has to be done with some momentum from when you stand up and you stand up from laying in ground position that if you start from scratch you’re going to spend a lot of energy getting up and then loading the jump. If you put everything together you bounce to stand up at the same time you stand up you use that momentum to jump you’re saving a lot. So that’s ⁓ also another tip.
John (08:12)
Okay.
So one of the secrets is to go down with the burpee super quick. You get a bounce reflex and then that helps you into the step. And then you’re able to use that to propel you forward. So it’s kind of all of this continuous momentum play. Okay, okay. And have you tested that against techniques like, we used to see some athletes do like this double step up thing where they would go on their knees and then it’d be step, step, jump. Have you tested it against things like that? Like how much quicker? Like is a very efficient burpee technique.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (08:44)
It could be a lot. the knee technique, it saves a lot of energy, but...
It saves a lot of energy, but at the end you still not having the momentum to jump. You are just going smooth and slow. And this is something I recommend for many amateurs, which is great because this bounce and using momentum requires a pretty high level to do that at below threshold or at threshold. Otherwise you will spike after five barbies. So it depends on the same as Hunter’s technique. So Hunter is amazing in doing these frog jumps.
You have to train a lot to do that and keep the heart rate in your zone. So it all depends on the athlete and the level you can reach. I would say the bounce thing is like an intermediate level between a frog jump technique, which requires more, and using your knee, which is to step up. It’s faster. When I started implementing it, because I’m talking about things
that I’m learning recently. have not been there in my toolkit all the time. Since I started doing it, I’m having some of the best barbies in the field, in the elites, and some of the best lunges, and I’m still trying to learn with the process. ⁓
John (09:52)
Yeah.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (10:04)
They are faster. Also They are faster if you do doubles because you do shorter sets. This technique benefits a lot from the faster you move, the fastest you will jump and you will do everything. With sets of five or six and rest, it’s very, very, very efficient.
John (10:05)
Okay? Okay.
Amazing. so tell us more about how you’re discovering this. So are you taking videos of yourself during training and you’re trying to think of ways to improve? Are you looking at the other guys? you drawing mathematical equations and going from first principles? Like how are you discovering these new techniques? What is the process?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (10:39)
No, the mathematical equations. I keep the math-
I give the mathematicals for my athletes. No, I just... Common sense. I spend a lot of time doing barbies or doing lunges or doing wobbles in many different ways and I try to find the way that clicks and it’s just about trying to learn. There’s no science behind- there’s- of course there’s science and sometimes it makes sense. You say, okay, of course. If you don’t stop
John (10:45)
You
Okay.
Okay, so let...
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (11:06)
when you can use the momentum, it’s better, but how you do that, you have to try different ways. ⁓ So it’s more trial.
John (11:12)
Okay.
Here’s a question, Pallaya. So a lot of people out there, have inefficient techniques, right? And they do the same thing every time, and they’re not necessarily reflecting on the fact that it’s inefficient. They don’t have the same brain that you have for really looking for those inefficiencies. So how would you coach people on that meta skill of looking for the inefficiencies? Like, how would you coach people about how to develop that same intuition that you have?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (11:38)
I try to explain what’s the principle of the movement. That’s important. So when I go to a workshop or even online when I coach my athletes, have most of the weeks, or would say all weeks, they have ⁓ two technique-specific sessions.
of two workouts. So I pick a couple workouts every week and they will repeat over the weeks. Okay, so I change the techniques. So imagine we pick the sled push, okay, we’ll work on the sled push for 30 minutes and you will push the sled many different ways and you will realize what’s the best one. And I will tell you which is the best one, but you will realize which is the best one. So I make them push with ⁓ arms lower, arms higher. What do you feel when you push lower? What do feel when you push higher? Which group muscles are being engaged?
When you go to the sled pull, what’s idea of the sled pull? Saving arms as much as possible so your arms could be used or you are as fresh as possible with your arms for the barbies. So I’m trying to teach them through these technique drills. So I do technique drills on all the stations and... ⁓
think that works. see my athletes have very good technique, actually.
John (12:51)
Yeah, no,
I think it’s absolutely fascinating. I think it’s something that we often overlook. If you look at lot of high rocks coaching, a lot of high rocks programming, it’s all about just the workouts and relatively little time is spent focusing on the efficiency. So the fact that you’re training people that way and you’re encouraging them to experiment with different techniques and really feel it for themselves, I think that’s really insightful. And I think that’s something that a lot of us can learn from.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (13:13)
Yeah, not everybody enjoys, know, doing drills is boring sometimes and you don’t feel like you are working out but it’s worth doing it, same as running. The best runners of the world spend hours and hours ⁓ trying to be as efficient as possible with their movement and it’s just running. We are talking about 8 different workouts. The space is massive, it’s huge.
John (13:33)
Yeah.
Do you feel like, do you feel like your background with swimming as a result of triathlon has really helped you in terms of this type of thinking? Cause I know with like, with swimming efficiency is almost everything.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (13:45)
Yeah, but swimming has been a frustration for me because I’ve never been able to implement that to myself. It’s space where I never feel comfortable and even though I know how to do it, I’m not able to do it well. So given that frustration and moving into a hyrox and seeing progress there, it has been very, very positive to me. But yeah, of course, swimming is a very perfect example. Effortless swimming makes you faster.
John (13:50)
Okay.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (14:14)
So you don’t need to go hard, you need to go fast and there’s videos where you see the best swimmers looks like they’re doing nothing and they are moving so quick. So just about being hydrodynamic. But having that capacity, it’s a mix of mobility, like skills that you probably develop. And this is something I...
I mean, I have an internal discussion because I want to think that you can still develop those swimming skills when you’re older, but at the same time you go to the ground and you see that only most, like 90 % of the good swimmers have been swimmers when they were kids. So that’s a bit frustrating.
John (14:53)
Yeah,
yeah. And it does make you wonder about a sport like high rocks as so many different movements. We really haven’t seen those, you know, 13 to 14 year olds like really start taking up high rocks. And we really don’t know like what the limits are in terms of efficiency for the whole sport overall.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (15:08)
Exactly, exactly. I think there’s a room for improvement there if they work since they are young, but I don’t know how much.
John (15:15)
Yeah. Okay. let’s talk about another station. So I think it’s to say that one of the stations you found most challenging is the warbles. So Palaio, tell us what holds you back on the warbles. What is preventing you from having one of the very best times there?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (15:27)
I think.
I’m still figuring it out. So I said I don’t have the answer for everything and this is a station that has been a struggle for me. am since the, mostly since the beginning and it’s not that I’m really bad. I mean, I’ve been between 350, four, like four flat all the time, pretty consistently, but still it’s not a competitive time of deletes and now you have to go unbroken, which is a totally different
approach than most of the amateurs which they just want to go through almost as fast as possible they don’t need to be at their 100 % just enough if they are 92 93 which means include smart brakes so do smart brakes I make them do like like 5 by 20 with 8 seconds rest
They do it easily and they finish and they say, oh my God, my time is way faster than they do on race day with including breaks. And it’s like, yes, this is the way. I cannot do that because if I do breaks every 20, I’m gonna be passed and I’m not gonna do a good time. to be honest, I still don’t know. I’m doing as many world-wars as I can. I’m trying to do it at different fatigue levels, which for me, I think is more...
John (16:43)
Mm-hmm.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (16:52)
I mean, there’s a mental component, of course. There’s a very important mental component that have to go through, which is you go to a station where you know there’s people who are gonna go unbroken no matter what.
Depending on how close they are from you. It’s like ⁓ my god if they are only five walls behind it’s like I’m passed and sometimes this is a mindset It’s not it is what what’s like conditioning me So it’s a mix of of course ⁓ like physical challenge and mental challenge, so I’m still figuring it out
John (17:23)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let’s explore this a little bit more because I think it’s good to explore how you’re figuring it out right now. So do you feel like you’ve done efforts harder than a hundred warbles in training? Do you feel like you’ve gotten, have you done this in training, but it’s more that you haven’t been able to just find that intensity during a race or how do you think about that part of it?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (17:46)
I been able to do way more than 100 unbroken in a very fatigue level. after ⁓ two and a half hour hypoxic endurance, I can throw 150 unbroken and I do it well. And it’s like, okay, so what’s going on race day is different. I think that the...
The effort level I’m able to put on race day has nothing to do or is anything close to what I can do on training. I’m a racer, I’m not like a training guy. You won’t see outstanding numbers from my training. I’m very consistent. I’m very like regular through like...
during the whole season, but I don’t do anything crazy fast. I don’t have any fancy workout to share with you. Any 1K reps that would say, wow, no, I don’t have those. My pace is, my training is pretty normal. When it comes to racing, I have one more gear, which has always been with me all my life, and I’m not able to...
And I don’t want to use that bullet in training. And this is something that for wall bolts is probably important because the level of fatigue you reach in wall bolts when you have gone one more gear than you usually go changes the scenario. And the feeling I have in wall bolts in racing, I haven’t been able to replicate that in training. And that’s what I’m seeking now. That’s what I’m seeking, trying to find this...
⁓ situation without compromising my training because going to that position in training will mean that the following days will be compromised. So trying to reach that level of fatigue or mental state that replicates the race without compromising the rest of the training and that’s what I’m working on and trying to find but haven’t done yet.
John (19:37)
Yeah, no, it’s absolutely fascinating. It’s, ⁓ you know, like, like JK was sharing a very similar journey. You know, he’d been able to get to that effort in training and had been able to go 150 unbroken after a hard workout. And then putting into practice was like another thing. So for JK, I feel like this season was his big breakthrough in terms of the warbles. But then it’s also very interesting to hear athletes such as Dan Plews as well, talk about a very similar struggle and how he’s also trying to figure out how to replicate it during, during training, which seems like very challenging. So.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (20:06)
Yeah, it’s obviously there’s some strength component in, we’re not the strongest upper body guys. So within that range of motion, we don’t have like huge strength, which means that you need a little bit more muscle here, which we didn’t have. And maybe this is part of equation that we need to go unbroken. But it will also be detrimental for your run if you increase weight on your upper body. So it’s a balance, yeah, you need to find your balance.
John (20:06)
Yeah.
if you’re bulking.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (20:33)
So
the best world was, as I said, is just getting to the world with 30 seconds before the other guys and that’s what team did at World Championships. That’s the best strategy.
John (20:39)
There you go, there you go.
Just yeah, do the Tim strategy. Okay, so why don’t you give us your philosophy around strength training then? So how much pure strength training work are you doing? Is there anything in your program that would look like powerlifting or would look like bodybuilding? Is there anything that would be along those lines in your training?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (21:00)
Yes, there is. I’m not sure if it’s because I truly believe in that or because I need to accept what everybody is doing. There’s some, but there’s not a ton. At the end...
I like doing strength in a compromised way more than strength alone. Of course, there’s a minimum strength you have to develop. And we have strength sessions with ⁓ sets of five, no less than five. And they usually go heavier because there’s people who has experience and they can go very heavy. going two reps or three reps from the technique perspective, I’m not able to squat at my one rep max.
I don’t have this capacity to do that. I just prefer to stay safer. And I don’t think we need it, but I like to mix, I like to do supersets. I like to mix them with the high-resistance stations. So for example, doing heavy squats into set of 30 meters left push. So for example, that’s sort of way to merge it. At the end, ⁓ strength, you need a minimum strength to go through the stations and then you need to
work
in the efficiency of working at your 60, 70, 80 percent of your max, which is the key. So these high rep ranges are also important in high rocks. Obviously, I do a couple of strength sessions a week with purely strength, but then when I get closer to the race, I mix them with workouts a lot.
John (22:25)
Okay. Okay. And then how do you think about intensity in terms of your running workouts? So are you doing very much zone two training or is the majority of your running at threshold and above? How do you think about intensity when it comes to running?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (22:39)
So, running. In running I have these key workouts which are either right below at threshold or above that are the key sessions that I use for what I consider these are the workouts I’m gonna move the needle here and...
The rest of the workouts are easy and I don’t think about really zone 2. I think about going easy. Going easy. I don’t care going right at the aerobic threshold. It’s very, very important for Ironman where you have to spend a whole marathon if possible at your aerobic threshold or being as fast as possible there. In Hydrox we are not exactly there and I prefer to recover those days that we go easy.
John (23:02)
easy.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (23:24)
Coming from a more running background, always feel better when I go to a race if I touch higher intensity speeds. So I feel confident if I’m able to move efficiently at 3 tenths, 3.05, 3 tenths per K. Even though I don’t touch those speeds, so I do a lot of VO2 max efforts. ⁓ Not a lot, but I do some VO2.
John (23:46)
Mm-hmm.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (23:46)
two bags. We recently working with Damplius, we realized that leading to Miami, which was the Hirox doubles pro world record I did with Rich, I ran the best I remember in a Hirox when it comes to running and I had the best feelings and it was within the first block of the preparation for the World Championships, which was not intended at all to perform.
at Miami but it ended up being like having like very good ⁓ application to Miami’s race to a doubles race so we are still learning how to what’s the what’s the way of training we start we just figured out that okay maybe this is a very good doubles training method and and we can go we can we can take something from there but it was not intended to with it was not without intention we found it it was like very flat so
So that’s the way. I like that high intensities and of course a lot of threshold which controlling load will allow you to recover faster.
Trying to move your aerobic threshold as high as possible, closer to 320s, 320 lows, and being efficient there is the most important thing. Like, high rock spaces are between, nowadays, they’re probably gonna change in the future, I think the fastest guy, which is team, could be running at 320 in a ⁓ solo race, trying to get there, and with less effort.
John (25:16)
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s super interesting. And just for the listeners out there. that Miami time that Palayo is referring to, that was a 48 31. That is the current world record in men’s pros. And that was alongside Rich Ryan. So tell us more about that block Palayo. So you said that it was accidental. What were you doing in that accidental block leading up to that world record time?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (25:39)
It was a merge of glycolytic work and threshold. So high intensity into threshold sets. That’s idea. So having sets of between 40 seconds to one minute 20 seconds of very high speed, leading into longer threshold like ⁓ sets like.
three to eight minutes thresholds after that. So was a mix of higher speed, high speed and lower speed intervals. And it ended up having a very good transfer. After doing that, I felt very efficient, very, very economic on the threshold basis, very.
John (26:04)
Wow, okay.
Interesting. Okay, so it’s something like a 200 to 400 meter run into maybe a mile and then a very short rest and then repeat that four or five times, something along those lines.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (26:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s the idea, that’s the idea, more or less. Yeah, exactly, With many different variations, but this is the idea.
John (26:39)
Yeah, OK, OK. All right, sounds good. Sounds good. ⁓
Okay, okay. Well, okay, let’s try and put this all together then. So let’s imagine somebody has 12 weeks to go until high rocks. Let’s say they’re not completely unconditioned. They’ve been training a little bit and they’re looking to get more serious about high rocks. How would you think about building up a basic training week? Like what are the essential components that need to be in the basic training week for almost anyone training for high rocks?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (27:10)
think I will agree with Dan Blues in this answer because we’ve been developing, well, I’ve been developing his program for a few months and we’ve put together many ideas all the time and we’re discussing that.
There’s two key sessions I always like to have. One is the hyroxendurance based session, which is a long hyrox station based, not a hyrox simulation. It’s a hyrox based station with different durations, mixing things in very different ways for one hour and half to two hours and a half between that range of duration. The second key session is a compromise running with body weight movement.
It gives you the ⁓ possibility of going higher intensity on the runs while getting used to ⁓ moving into stations of switching. Like this ⁓ brick, this classical brick sessions in triathlon where you do run, bike, run, bike, run, bike, run and shorter sets. I apply that to hyrox, but instead of biking, I do barpees, I do lunges, I do bear crawl, I do push-ups, I do like many body weight based things.
that allows you to run faster, but making transitions quick in doing barbies, like after running, instead of running at three 20s, you run three 10s and you do barbies, you are gonna have a different skill in doing barbies. You are gonna reach a different level. So this body weight, and the impact to the recovery aspect is small, because if you mix running, which is a very aggressive thing with heavy weights,
it takes longer to recover, takes way longer. So I don’t do that very often. I reserved that for the last couple of weeks before hard rock so that you have the feeling. But I like this bodyweight into running like every single week. So these two are the main key set, I would say they are key sections of the week.
John (29:06)
Okay, let’s just
pause that briefly. So in terms of that body weight session, what kind of duration are you looking at? So for the endurance one, you were looking at 90 minutes, two hours, what kind of duration are we looking at for that body weight into running session?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (29:19)
I usually break it down in two parts. So the first part is purely running with interval sets between threshold view to max. They usually go a little bit faster. anything between 400 to a kilometer. So for let’s say 20 to 25 minutes doing reps of running with short rest and then moving into a compromised body weight based which is going to be between 20 to 40 minutes duration, nonstop.
John (29:45)
So again, it’s a relatively long workout. These aren’t easy sessions at all. So that session in particular sounds like, is that one of the harder sessions that somebody is doing during the week? Okay, okay, very good. Okay.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (29:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it sucks. It’s a hard one. It’s a hard one. You need to be ⁓ motivated. I mean, of course you can pace yourself. So first the idea is getting your legs a little bit tired with the running intervals before and then doing the compromise in a very... starting the compromise more compromised than you start if you start from scratch. And working on finding your pace, finding your rhythm. If you only do like 10 minute sets, it takes you time
to get used to it. The more changes you do, the more you get used to like, okay, I now get out of the bar piece and I will run faster the first, and I do a lot of changes. I tell people, okay, we get out of the bar piece, you run fast the first 200 meters and you settle. And then the next one you run slow and you build up through 200 meters and you settle then. And then it will have the feeling, yeah, I feel better if I go faster and then I settle on the, there’s other people who go, I prefer to go like consistently at the same pace. Other people prefer to build up.
So trying different things gives you the opportunity to also to try, same as I did with the technique on the other stations.
John (30:56)
This is the math equation and keeping people on their feet. Yeah. Okay, okay. Okay, very good. So we’ve got the long endurance high rock session. We’ve got these body weight compromise sessions. What else is part of the basic training week?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (30:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then I have two strength sessions that could be either purely strength or a mix of, when I say purely strength, I’m also including supersets. So I don’t like to spend a lot of time in the gym. a lot of time lifting weights, two minutes, lifting weights, waiting two minutes. I know that’s optimal for gaining like max strength, but we’re not looking for max strength. We are looking for like efficiency here and trying to be as...
smooth through this 60-70 % supersets of strength and then after one hour doing like these supersets we do a high rocks workout small high rocks workout which means mixing I usually like to compromise the stations with the erics so erics into weighted stations which has less impact to recovery as I said before the running the compromise running makes it with body weight usually and the
the compromised strength, I mix it with Erics.
John (32:05)
Mm.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (32:05)
So
having a small workout at the very end of this strength workout when you are a little bit more tired so you don’t have to go high intensity and I try to make them do them do that ⁓ part of the workout which is short probably between 10 to 30 minutes at the end of the strength session at threshold. So doing three by ten sets of a threshold trying to keep your heart rate throughout the session. Same as I tell them to keep them at your aerobic threshold in the endurance in this shorter
I told him to do it at threshold. So it’s part of the threshold work as well. So same as running, it’s part of the threshold work. So I usually do a couple of those sessions a week. And then when it comes to running alone, I do usually one quality session, which will depend on the phase of the season. could be either threshold, I mean, would say 70 to 80 % will be around threshold. But...
but there’s time also to do some VO2 max so closer to the races we like to do more VO2 max intervals and having the feeling of speed I like that feeling and so one session of quality running
And that session is usually merged together with another second session of high intensity in the airics, in the ski in particular. So it’s a double, like we call double threshold Tuesdays usually. So do you remember that from them please? ⁓ Yeah, so we do that on Tuesdays. Tuesdays are hard, usually.
John (33:28)
Yes, yes, I did.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (33:34)
And then I like to take it easy a couple of days a week, at least very, easy, which are going to be...
Thursdays and Sundays. Thursdays and Sundays are super chill. I go by feeling that those days. Even though I prescribe workouts for me and I just do what my body feels like doing, they are chill. I like to, this polarized approach of I go hard and I train with intention the days I have to and then I just disconnect and try to refresh my mind a couple of days a week at least.
John (34:06)
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s very interesting. Tim Vienish had a very similar system with high days and low days. He does very high quality days into yeah, into lower recovery days.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (34:13)
Yeah. Yeah, I don’t
do one high, one low, one high, one low. I usually put them together, a little small three-day block, and then I rest, and then a two-day block, and then I rest. So it’s more like by smaller block, but it’s the same idea. So, bye.
John (34:30)
Okay, interesting. So, Polio, there’s a lot of quality sessions in these basic weeks. So...
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (34:37)
Yeah,
that’s why you have to be smart when it comes to deciding which is the way you want to do this quality. So that’s why I don’t do so much compromise running with weights because I wouldn’t be able to do more that week probably. Yeah.
John (34:51)
And so, so
in general, do you believe that, so the muscular fatigue is what limits an athlete rather than central overall fatigue? Is that kind of your thinking behind that?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (35:02)
I
would say in this sport there’s a big muscular component.
I would say, of course both have to be considered. This is a structure I don’t necessarily apply to my athletes. So I’m talking about me. I’m a little bit more cautious about normal people who has full-time jobs and they want to perform, but of course they don’t need so much high intensity. If you have the capacity to rest, have good nutrition, good rest, and everything, all the pieces aligned, I mean, can do three, one, two, one.
No problem.
John (35:38)
and three, two, that’s referring, say again, so that’s referring to.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (35:42)
So
three quality days, one rest day. Two quality days, one rest day.
John (35:47)
Yeah, okay.
Okay, so let’s think about building up a program then for somebody. So yeah, so it seems like building up to that number of quality sessions, that’s something that’s gonna take quite a lot of time. That’s gonna take a pretty exceptional base. So how can somebody build up to being able to tolerate something like that?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (36:04)
That’s a good question. what I like to do with people who has no experience, first of all, reduce the duration of most of the sessions, and then increasing duration but without increasing intensity. So trying to make them work at lower intensity instead of requiring, for example, those double threshold days.
When I do this work out after the strength session, I tell people to keep it easy. Just go through it. Don’t try to reach any level of intensity. Just do it. When you feel comfortable doing it, because at the beginning, just the fact of pushing the sled, it’s going to be hard.
So try to reduce weights. Put as low weights as you need to go smooth through it and finish the workout with the feeling, ⁓ I could do one more and keep building from there. So it’s not so much about changing the structure, it’s about changing the intensity and then building up the intensity as you get used to it.
John (37:02)
Mmm.
Yeah, so in a way, so you’re saying basically people should get used to the basic training week to begin with and they should do it at an intensity they can handle and then they slowly build into that intensity over time.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (37:17)
Exactly, For example, they compromise running. I mean, it looks hard. You have to do running and bar piece. Okay, just go super easy.
John (37:19)
It’s a very reasonable strategy.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (37:29)
Like, feel it, feel it. Don’t look at your watch. I don’t want you to pay attention to paces and just go through it and experience what it means. And stop if you need it and keep going and just test it. And as the weeks progresses, you will adapt and you will get used to it.
John (37:49)
Okay.
So I want to talk about potential and capacity. So let’s say you’re just picking an average 20 to 25 year old, somebody who again is reasonably athletic, but like they’re not like a superstar. Do you feel like most people have the potential to get to a 60 minute high rocks? Do you feel like with a 10 year, know, taking somebody from age 25 to 30 or 35, you could get them there? Do people have that potential?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (38:16)
Yeah,
I mean, first, disclaimer, Hirox times depend on the venue, of course, and the variation is huge. So we still talk about 60 minutes as a benchmark, but 60 minutes in Glasgow or Berlin, as they were this past season, it’s not the same as minutes in Cape Town last week.
John (38:23)
Yes.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (38:40)
60 minutes is a time that is doable by anyone if they are committed. 100%. It’s not crazy. It’s not crazy. It’s like... I’ve heard that when I was...
when I was younger when it comes to running someone told me anyone can go under 33 minutes in running in the 10 in a 10k run by just by training committing to the process but not everybody can go below 31 and this there’s a small very small ⁓ like time that
separates like potential and like ⁓ training capacity and I think it high-rises the 60 minutes is still within the potential so you can so you train sorry you can go to 60 minutes if you commit
John (39:26)
Okay. And how long do you think it would take most people to get there? If they, if they truly commit, sorry. Yep. Yep. Go ahead. Let’s say they truly commit to your program or one like yours. Yeah.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (39:29)
It depends on It depends, it depends. ⁓
Yeah, it depends on background. depends on the background.
If you don’t have a running background, it will take longer. With a running background, it will take very shorter. Maybe the starting point is lower because you don’t have the capacity to move the weights, but you will make progress faster. But I put myself as an example. It took me less than eight months to...
I raised my first four ways was 110, 109 and I broke the hour, it was in February and I broke the hour in October when I was just right at the limit of the hour in September, sorry, in September. So, and I just, I trained, I didn’t do like anything. It depends on the background, it depends on the athlete, but it could be done in a few months.
John (40:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
So somewhere between a few months and a few years. Okay. And let’s talk about people coming from a strength side. So obviously you’re coming from an endurance background. You’ve had a great background in terms of triathlon. I imagine that a lot of people who are coached by you also come from endurance. Do you feel uncomfortable when somebody comes to you and they have more of a strength background or like, like what’s your response when you see that somebody’s been like a powerlifter or a wrestler or, know, something more on the strength side? Like, how do you feel about that?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (40:55)
have a lot of people coming from strength backgrounds and I feel, I mean, obviously they feel, the runs feel hard and obviously it takes time to get used to running that much and at ⁓ that intensity as I said, I prefer them to start like...
Just going through it and don’t rush. Don’t try to run at your maximum effort. Having this range of speeds in your pocket that you can manage is not something that you are born with that. You have to get used to train for that. So I mean, I feel comfortable. I feel very comfortable, of course, for a one-on-one coach like athletes.
I have to adapt a little bit, quite a lot I would say, the structure of the program. have a lot of triathletes, to be honest. Yes, of course, the majority of my one-on-one athletes come from endurance background, but those who come from...
strength background, I make them run, I make them run. And I put a lot, we do a lot of aerobic work on also on the stations and on the bike to reduce the impact. So that’s the, they can build, they still can build this aerobic base and work on. So threshold runs, cannot put like a person who has not been running any, running, like doing thresholds or VO2 max on the runs, you have to do them without impact. So I try to build that on the bike sometimes.
Thanks.
John (42:22)
Mm hmm. Yeah, okay. Okay. So it’s really targeting towards those weaknesses, which I imagine for a lot of people come from the strength background, it is just building up that base. And the reality is, it’s just going to take a lot of time, a lot of time.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (42:33)
And it takes
also time to making them understand that the stations are also part of endurance and game. They don’t need to be like so strong to move as lead.
you need to be, because then they go to the sled and they go 180 bits per minute and they don’t move it. So it’s more about like efficiency and strength. we also, I miss a lot with them in working the stations of different intensities.
John (43:02)
Yeah.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (43:03)
something that is different from lifting from very different from lifting so they both the endurance and strength athletes have to work in all the aspects maybe the endurance have the endurance athletes have the running but it’s it’s not the same running they usually have because it’s a compromised running it’s a running which you will feel heavy legs you will feel different and and this is this bodyweight workout is teaching them very
quickly how to adapt the running. I see the bodyweight workout very beneficial for runners because even though they are very good runners they struggle with running and their fatigue or they cannot be as efficient as they run when they put a barbie in between. But they take it very quickly with the bodyweight.
John (43:47)
Hmm.
Yeah, imagine a lot of it is just teaching people what they’re capable of under fatigue. So yeah, a lot of people aren’t used to the feeling of having 180 beats per minute heart rate after burpees and then going straight back into a run. And it’s probably learning that that’s still possible.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (44:09)
Exactly, Or at least, like, the idea is going down this 180 bits per minute to 170 and feeling more efficient on the bar piece. That’s also another part of the equation. So working both sides, getting used to running at higher intensities after doing a station, and trying to be more efficient in the stations to create less fatigue.
John (44:30)
That makes sense. That makes sense. So in general, when you’re racing a Hirox, do you just accept that the first 200 to 400 meters of every run is just going to feel very uncomfortable and you’re kind of going to settle into the pace? Or how does it feel for you as you’re running those one kilometer reps during a Hirox?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (44:48)
Yeah, I mean
You don’t even think about it. I have be honest. I think our brain already knows how it feels after each station. They feel different. They feel very different. Some of them you raise your heart rate, some of them your legs are totally done. So they are different feelings and you know and you accept them. it’s something you... I don’t even think now about it. When I was in triathlon, I...
do same to myself all the time when I get off the bike
Sometimes I didn’t feel my legs. It was like same feeling as if the last part of the bike was like ⁓ very intense in terms of attacks, attacking people each other and so on. The legs felt like getting out of this leg push, very similar. Which means that you don’t feel your legs. You don’t feel them. So I told myself, you don’t feel your legs, which means you don’t feel pain. You don’t feel anything. So run, just run.
John (45:51)
Mm.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (45:51)
Break the most out of this moment and run as fast as possible. You won’t feel anything. I was like, okay, I run.
John (45:57)
out.
Okay, so it’s a little mental trick. It’s like, it’s like,
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (46:01)
It’s a mental trick.
It’s not something that has any science behind it.
John (46:05)
Yeah. So,
so in general, so, so yeah. So in general, people are coming up with all kinds of limitations in their minds, but from what I’m hearing you saying, like a lot of the time, those limitations are actually false. Is that true?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (46:18)
not
all false, but you can trick them. So you can just trick them a little bit. And try to embrace the struggle.
John (46:22)
You can trick them.
Okay.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (46:28)
Try to make the most out of it. You like to be there. Yeah, you decide you decide to be there and When you get off the sled push, of course your your legs are gonna be heavy And that’s the best the best thing you you can happen because it means you’ve been you’ve been doing it good You’re in the right way. You’re in the you’re in the place and you know, you know, they’re gonna come back so instead of Tend to yourself. Oh my god. I’m down here. It’s like oh my god I’m where I want to be and where I want
where it decided to be. So these mental games are important in Hydrox.
John (47:00)
Yeah.
Yeah. So I would describe a lot of that play as having an elite mindset. So you’re like one of these individuals has a very elite mindset when it comes to racing. So my question is, how do you, how do you convince other people that that mindset is worth having?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (47:20)
The mind is a world that it’s difficult to understand but I mean When you sign up for a race you are doing something out of your comfort zone Because you want to expose yourself and you want to test yourself
The opportunity of testing yourself and going to the limit is a privilege and I take it as a privilege and it’s once in a very long time. And that day is special. That day is different. That day you will feel hungry, you will feel like you haven’t felt any time in training. Fresh, carb-loaded, hyped. You have...
you have the best equipment with you, nothing can stop you. So you have something else which you haven’t and this is the magic of racing. I tell them too, you will feel something different. You will feel the unknown of...
how fast I can go in an optimal condition which I’ve never experienced with the fitness I’ve gained. So this is amazing because you go there and you start like you go as fast as you’ve been going through the first four stations together because you are in the optimal conditions and this is a privilege. This is something I enjoy a lot and allows me to push harder. So I tell them just to...
to make them aware the uncertainty of the unknown of not having been there so often makes it very very like enjoyable I would say.
And that’s part of my approach. I don’t like to waste lot of ballots in training, as I said. I don’t like race simulations. I don’t like to expose myself to the same race conditions. I want the race to be different. I want the race to be the gift, the final gift, the special thing in training. Training is a loading process which is more about consistency and then everything comes together the race day. If you go with that mindset, nothing can go wrong.
John (49:20)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it’s a different polio that comes out on race day. It’s something that’s saved just for those opportunities.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (49:24)
Yeah,
yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I’m a different one. I don’t look at my watch. I go by feeling. I just race. And that’s something when they ask me about paces, like how you track your laps, how... I go there. I don’t spend any energy in anything that it’s not racing.
I just focus on racing. don’t do that. I don’t need to do that. I just did that for so many times in training. I know what pace I’m going. I know the effort. I know the perceived exertion. And I just focus on racing. I enjoy the race. It’s one hour, one hour, 30 minutes, whatever it takes for you. It’s your moment.
John (50:10)
Yeah. And you’re showing to yourself what you’re capable of.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (50:15)
Yeah,
Yeah, this is ⁓ the beauty of racing because you will reach levels that you haven’t been able to be there in training and you will discover parts of yourself that you didn’t even know. I surprise myself every time I race. I surprise myself in a positive way because I don’t expect anything. It’s like, I don’t know what’s going on. I know I’m very fit, but I don’t know how...
how high I can go today. And I go as high as I can, and it’s like, what new world. And it’s fantastic.
John (50:46)
Is it something that spills over into your everyday as well? So in other words, in other words, when you, when you’ve raced and you know that you’ve found this extra gear, does it, does it shape the way that you think about yourself on, on the day to day? How much does it impact your identity to know that you’ve been there and to know that you have pushed? Yeah. Yeah.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (51:00)
on.
Confidence, it gives me confidence. It gives me lot of
confidence. I don’t need to prove myself daily that I’m fit. I don’t need to prove myself. I know that I can go there with a very intelligent and consistent training. And I know that I have one more gear that day. I know I have it. I know I have it. And this is about confidence. I tend to be a very...
John (51:22)
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (51:28)
positive person, I would say. And I build confidence through, not through training, because I accept that there’s days in training where paces that should be easy feels hard. And it’s normal, I will take it. But I know the rest day I’m gonna perform.
John (51:46)
You’re gonna crash. You’re gonna
crash.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (51:47)
Also, it’s very important when it comes to compare with other people because it’s very easy to look at Strava, look at Instagram and see all those fancy workouts that people do and like think, my God, I’m not even there. I’m not close enough. But I have the confidence. I’ve been like this all my life and it’s like, I don’t care. When it matters, I’m going to race and I’m going to be faster. Just the day it matters.
John (52:09)
Amazing.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (52:11)
The way I approach the journey is my way and I know that it gives me an edge for the rest of it. So it’s more about confidence in yourself.
John (52:21)
Okay, Pallayo, final question. What is on the edge of your curiosity or what is capturing a lot of your attention right now?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (52:32)
We’ll do them in. ⁓
John (52:34)
So in other words, what
are you curious about in terms of your training or in terms of something in your life? What is taking up a lot of your time and attention in terms of your day-to-day thought process, in terms of what you’re exploring right now?
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (52:48)
Well, I’m very into understand how I can implement all.
what I feel and how I behave and how I race into my athletes. And this is something it’s not always possible because you have to go into the mindset and that’s something I’m very very passionate about is trying to make them feel as I feel and trying to transmit what I want about
from training and my principles and that’s something I’m very passionate about. I want to prove that what I’ve done with myself I can do it with other people.
John (53:26)
Well, Pelleo, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for being part of the show.
Pelayo Menendez Fernandez (53:31)
Thank you so much, Jan. Thank you, it’s a pleasure.
